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Jeff: "Welcome all. And so, we meet once again in the no-thing, in the void, in emptiness, in the space which is really the world in its entirety. And there is no separation – there never was. And really this is where we always meet, in the nothingness from which everything arises. Here, right here.

Here, and only here, is the peace we have always been seeking, but could never find. And why could we never find the peace? Because we were looking for it! Peace was never lost, and so in looking for it, we destroy the possibility of ever finding it. Because it’s not an “it”, not something to be found at the end of a search, but the ground and condition and possibility of all things, the ground out of which the search arises in the first place, the presence which allows everything to be in the first place. And we are always, always here.

It always begins here, always ends here. This is it, this is the Alpha and the Omega, this is creation and destruction, and all is well. All is perfectly well. 

How exciting it is to be here, in the presence that was never absent, the presence which holds this wonderful play of a world, this utterly convincing illusion, this trick of light and sound and smell that claims to be so wonderfully solid, but on closer inspection has no substance at all. We meet here, like newborn babies once again, open to what is, transparent to the All.

Welcome home. Welcome to your very own Self. The only place there ever is. Notice, the idea of an “outside world” is just that, an idea arising now. And you are not separate from that idea. You are not the thinker of that thought. Notice that once there is the belief in a “thinker”, an entire world is born, an entire universe throws itself out of nothingness, instantly – no, quicker than an instant, beyond time altogether - and appears “out there”.

You see, this “thinker”, this “me” is the primary illusion. And it’s not an illusion that needs to be destroyed. Because it’s just a thought. “You” are just a thought, and only a thought would want to end thought!

Q: Could you say that again?

Of course. Only a thought would want to end thought. Only the mind would want to put an end to mind. You see, the mind says “once the mind has been destroyed, there will be a peace that is beyond mind”. And the mind spends a lifetime trying to reach that peace. Because there is the assumption that there is, in fact, a “mind” in the first place. And the entire spiritual search rests on that assumption: that there is a “mind”, a seeker, a separate person who one day will reach “liberation” or “enlightenment”. And it’s always “one day”, isn’t it? [Laughter]

But where is this “mind”, on which our entire lives are based? Where is this centre, where is the “me”, at the centre of it all? When we really look, I mean really look, it’s just not there! When we really look, all we ever could possibly find is the looking. And nobody’s doing that. There isn’t “someone looking”. There is just the looking. And not even that.

Just the most profound emptiness, which is total fullness. And you are not separate from any of that, which is to say there is no “you” at all. Only the isness, only what is, and nobody there to even name it. Only the Mystery, always the Mystery. Beyond all understanding, beyond any possibility of comprehension. And it’s where we always are.

I was sitting here and thinking, it’s so beautiful… why do we never see this?

Yes, it’s exquisite, in each and every moment, although of course there are no “moments” at all. The mind even creates the concept “moment” and separates this moment from that moment. All a wonderful illusion, a wonderful play.

As adults, this becomes very hard to see, you’re right. As a newborn baby, this was clearly seen. Why? Because a newborn baby is not yet separate. There is only what is happening. Only presence. And then there grew this thing the world calls “mind”, a personality, a separate self, and we tried so desperately to hang onto that, to be something in the world, to accumulate money and power, to succeed, to be as beautiful and true and good as possible. And we built up knowledge, accumulated thousands of concepts, we became full of concepts! Stuffed with them! And that simple, exquisite presence you speak about was apparently lost. The simple joy of being became clouded over by a world, a world of concepts, beliefs, religions, ideologies. By the search for something more. And where did that search ever get us? Did it ever make us happy? Were we ever at peace? Well, sometimes, perhaps. But did it ultimately satisfy?

Well, no. We’re all here, so no! [Laughter]

You see, that was the dream. That there was a person, who lived a life, who made choices and accumulated and efforted and became someone special in the world. You see, all of that is the dream. It’s just a memory, a thought. You are just a memory. And not even that.

[Long silence]

Ah, to be free from yourself! And it’s utterly effortless. Utterly exquisite. The freedom the separate person always craved was always right here, waiting. The mind just got a little confused for a while! [Laughter]

[Silence]

So what are we supposed to do now? Give up?

Ah, we would if we could! Isn’t that the game that is the spiritual search? To give up? To surrender, to relax into Being, to plunge back into the no-thing?

But here’s the point: it’s always turned into a doing, isn’t it? “I need to give up! Why haven’t I been able to give up yet!?” [Laugher]. And so the game goes on. The mind will turn anything into a doing. It will even turn a not-doing into a doing, and spend the rest of its life trying to do that! [Laughter]. Trying to do nothing! Oh, the wonderful games the mind plays, trying to save itself. It really doesn’t want to die. And so it creates all these terrifying stories about death. And it keeps itself going. Always seeking, always wanting, always hoping. Always fleeing from an illusory past, aiming towards a made-up future.

And the wonderful secret is that death is liberation. It’s the end of the mind. And yes, that will happen at the physical death of the body. The plunge into Nothingness, the end of thought, the end of all suffering. The end of the “me”. And isn’t that why we see death as terrifying? Because it’s the end of the “me”, the end of my life, my story, my achievements. The end of my world. It’s all about me, isn’t it! We don’t want to lose ourselves.

And yet, losing ourselves, as all the great spiritual traditions throughout the ages have taught, is the liberation we desire more deeply than anything. To lose your self is to lose all suffering, and to plunge into the Nothingness that is total Fullness. Which is to say, death is to see clearly, for the first time. To see the world without your story, without your projections, labels, interpretations. Which is all you have ever seen!

I’ll be brutally honest: we have never really seen this world. All we have ever seen is mind, is interpretation. And our interpretations never satisfy, do they! Because all interpretations are partial, they are fragments, they are just thoughts. So we have only ever seen fragments. We see everything as divided. This separate from that, me separate from you. And somewhere underneath, another possibility whispers, oh so quietly: that this fragmented story is not the whole story. Fragments are only fragments. Underneath the division, there is a Oneness more stunningly beautiful than the mind could ever grasp. And it is only because of the Oneness that anything can exist at all. Everything – every apparent separate thing – is just a manifestation of this Oneness.

Isn’t Oneness just another concept?

Ah yes, I’m glad you said that! Of course, the moment we speak of Oneness, and fragmentation and so on, we are using concepts, which are always dualistic. We are trying to use concepts to speak of that which is beyond all concepts, trying to use duality to speak of the unity out of which everything arises! And so words will always only ever confuse. But it’s never about the words. Forget all words, even these ones. Instead of these words, listen to a bird sing, or look at a flower, or walk through the streets feeling the ground  beneath your feet and the raindrops on your face. That will say more to you than these words ever could. The mind loves its words, it feasts on its concepts!

But in a talk like this, we have to use words. Of course, that’s not entirely true either, we don’t have to do anything at all. But the words come out. The mouth opens, and sounds happen, and this “Jeff” creature apparently talks. And watch how the mind latches onto these sounds and calls them “words” and tries to work out what they are pointing to. And the point is that they are pointing to nothing. Literally, no-thing. These words, if you try to listen with the intellect, will only confuse. Like a Zen koan, they will drive the mind crazy! Until perhaps, that confusion will drop, and there will only be what is, crystal clear isness. And in that, the truth is revealed. And it’s nothing you could ever be taught.

But doesn’t that suggest some sort of process?

Yes, the moment we talk about things like “confusion dropping” and “seeing clearly” the mind will immediately latch onto this and create some sort of process out of it. The mind will say “I need to drop my confusion so I will get the crystal clarity that Jeff is speaking of”. And the mind has saved itself once again… and has missed the point of this whole thing.  It has gotten itself a future. And the mind loves a future. It gives it life. Without a future (and therefore without a past) the mind has nothing to do, absolutely nothing to do. Oh yes, make no mistake, this message is very threatening to the mind. This message is pointing to nothing less than the end of the mind. And that’s the last thing the mind wants to hear! [Laughter]

So it’s not a question of doing, it’s a question of seeing?

Yes, but it’s not a seeing like any other seeing. It’s not a seeing that a person can do. It’s not a seeing that requires time.

[Silence]

This seeing is what we already are, and the moment any movement is made to do that seeing, to do what we are, we are instantly in the world of illusion. The “I” is born, and gets an identity (as “the one who is trying to see”).

You see, the mind always wants something to do. But we’ve tried everything! We’ve been doing our entire lives, and did it ever satisfy?

I’d have to say no. Nothing has satisfied, not deeply anyway. I guess for me, that’s why I’m here. To get some deeper satisfaction, or, well I don’t know really!

Yes, and even if something did satisfy deeply, that too would pass. All experiences pass. Nothing stays. The Buddhists have known this always: all is impermanent. Like sand through fingers. We can’t capture a damn thing. And even if we think we can, what happens when illness and old age and death come along? What then? Death will strip away everything. And so if we are attached to anything…well, there is the terror! The terror of loss.

But we never had anything in the first place. We only imagined we did. It’s all a wonderful play of thought, happening now, now, and now.

And so this nonduality thing – and I love how the world has given a name to this! -  is not another process, another way of life, another doing. Although the mind may interpret it as that, and sometimes I say that it’s all the mind can do.

But in who or what is the mind arising now? You see, if we see clearly, without any story or interpretation from the past, it’s so obvious: there is only this. The heart beating, breathing, sounds happening over there, someone coughing…. And thoughts just arise. And nobody is doing it. Nobody is beating the heart: it’s just beating. Nobody is breathing, breathing is just happening. The world is already free from “you”. You are already absent.

[Silence]

When you said that, a great excitement welled up. It feels like innocence, like a huge burden lifted….. I don’t know.

Yes, I don’t know either! [Laughter]. It’s the mind dying, the burden of self being seen through for the illusion that it is. A plunge into the Unknown, the Unborn, the Undying, that you already are, that is the world in its entirety. Yes, there can be great excitement. And fear too. But even that is still just a play of mind. “There is excitement”. “There is fear”. Just thoughts. Just thoughts. Arising, dissolving, perfectly. Arising, dissolving, in this clarity, this openness, this transparency that has nothing to do with a personal “you”, yet allows it all fully, with no exception, no exception at all.

Yes, it feels free…. Like it’s uncontaminated by me or something.

Yes, beautiful, uncontaminated. Pure, innocent.

New. Always new.

Always born for the first time.

[Silence]

This is pure, unconditional love. Our true nature. And yes, those are still just concepts. Throw even those concepts away. “Pure, unconditional love” – still a wonderful belief! What happens when even that ideology dies?

[Silence]

This is the death of all you ever knew. The death of you as you know yourself, as you experience yourself. It’s like a rebirth, into the openness that you always were. The openness, the transparency that you knew as a child. We think we lost it, but how could we ever lose something we never had!

Say that again – you mean we never had it?

Yes, because it’s not a thing that we could ever possess. It’s the openness, the space, the transparency, the awareness in which all apparent “things” arise in the first place. The space in which “you” arise! The space that holds all things, embraces all things, allows all things to be exactly as they are. The space that is uncontaminated by what happens. Pain comes and goes, anger comes and goes, wars come and go, dictators die, rain and wind and snow blow through, loved ones arrive and leave, the clouds of life arise, stay for a little bit, and pass, and this openness always is pure, untainted.

Is this openness separate from what arises?

No. There is never any division. It is language that has separated this from that, awareness from its passing content. The final truth, if you want a final truth, is that awareness and what happens “in” awareness are not two. Awareness IS its content.

Wow. [Laughter]

Yes, wow indeed! To the mind, this seems like a complete paradox. That the space in which the world arises is identical with that apparent world. That is nonduality. No separation. No separate “me” who sees the world.

And here’s the shattering conclusion: there is really no world. When there is no “me” to see the world, there is no world either.

And yet it’s not a blank nothingness. Even that is just another concept.

What happens when the “me” who sees the world dissolves? And the world along with it?

Here’s what happens.

[Long Silence]

Did you see it? Did you see that there was nothing to see? [Laughter]

The simple and obvious appearance of it all. Just this. This is the miracle we were always seeking. And yes, “miracle” is just a world. When the person is not there, there’s not even anyone there to call it a “miracle”. There is only the miracle, only God, only the Tao, only Life Itself, only the One, appearing as a million things.

When the search for the extraordinary “out there” collapses, this is seen to be the extraordinary. And it’s utterly ordinary. And the whole ordinary/extraordinary duality collapses on itself.

And what are we left with?

[Silence]

Chop wood and carry water.

[Silence]

Have you finished your soup? Then clean your bowl. That’s an old Zen koan by the way.

The absolute simplicity of this. Everyday life is the miracle. But a mind trying to see that could never see it.

And in this, there are never any problems. There is not even that possibility. Life happens, and nobody is doing it. And nobody is there to know it, to interpret it, to criticise it, to want to escape it.

No problems. And even thoughts that claim that there are problems are not a problem, if they were to arise. What’s the worst thing that could ever happen? Just a thought. Nothing to fear anymore. There never was.

Nothing to fear. Not even death. Death is just a concept. I only see life. Death is just an idea.

There is a strange peace here that I cannot name. A sense of, I don’t know, yes, excitement. Is it that way for you?

Life is nothing but that: the peace we cannot name. To name it is to kill it. And yet naming goes on. We could say: this is a chair, that is a table, that is a lampshade. And yet it’s all a wonderful illusion. But why not say “this is a chair”. Of course it’s not a damn chair! [Laughter].

Years ago, when this was first seen, there was a great excitement. Like a wound-up coil being released. A huge release of pressure. The seriousness of life gone. The childlike wonder and playfulness seen to be the natural state, the way of things. All very dramatic. These days that seeing is constant, if I were to use language to describe it! This is just in response to your question, you see. I have no idea what “way” it is for me, if truth be told. I know that when I speak, it’s all an illusion, a lie in a way. The reference point, the “me”, has no meaning anymore. That’s to say, this apparent character “Jeff” plays in the Void, dances in the space that has always held him. That’s how I might put it in language. But language… well, it’s never true at all. It’s just a wonderful story being told now, in response to a question, and only in response to a question. When there is no question, there is no movement here. [Silence]. Don’t you love how I never give a straight answer? [Laughter]

No, I see. In that peace, it’s like… nothing can be known. I see that question is… meaningless. It implies a me and you, you know, a teacher and student…

Yes, beautiful, meaningless, but perfect in that. And yes, so wonderfully meaningful, because it was asked. No problem. Questions are wonderful, a perfect play of the Divine as they already are. There’s this wonderful apparent play of questions and answers, and people pretending to be people, and coming to meetings like this and asking dream questions to a dream teacher in a dream room, and going back to their dream homes and their dream families. We don’t need to get rid of questions, or families, or anything.

[Silence]

You speak about the dream. Isn’t that somehow…  devaluing life? I mean, if it’s all a dream, why bother?

Well, it may be heard that way. When I say dream, I mean this: that the seriousness, the solidity has gone out of it. The edges have melted away. It really is like a dream, that’s what it feels like. Dreaming and waking – what difference?

But it’s not a cold detachment. The paradox is this: when it’s all seen as a dream, it’s all so incredibly intimate. Because all barriers between “me” and “you” fall away. And in that unknowable space, I see you for the first time, every time. And every time I see you, it’s a new you. And in that space, there is love. We always meet in love. This meeting is a meeting in love. The space where we meet.

And we always meet in this space, in this live without boundaries, without words. There was never a “you” separate from “me”. And if I think I have a problem with you, it’s really just a problem with what I take to be myself. And if I am at war with you, I feel it as war with myself. Because there is not two, there has never been two, there has only ever been One. One appearing as two, as a million things, apparently…. so they say!

This is love. When I meet you with no idea of “you”. When the “me and you” thing drops away. And that takes no time at all. The “me and you” division is just an idea, just a creation of thought.

But it goes so deep.

Yes, yes it does. As children, it begins to be drummed into us! “You are you, and you have a name, and I am me, and I have a name, and there are millions of others like you out there in the world”. And there the violence begins. I’m a Christian, you’re a Jew, he’s a Hindu, she’s a Buddhist. I support one team, one God, one religion, one corporation, one branch of academic knowledge, you support another. My beliefs against yours, her feelings in opposition to his. Division, fragmentation, violence. And there’s no end to it.

But what a wonderful illusion it all is. And the end of the illusion, which is a seeing-through simpler than the mind could ever imagine, there is the end of violence. And then I truly see the one in front of me, with fresh eyes. And know that the one in front of me is really myself. Just a projection. And no, it’s not a cold detachment, it’s unconditional love, it’s exquisitely intimate. But yes, the illusion of individuality goes deep.

And that’s just a thought too?

My, you’re good! [Laughter]. Yes, just another wonderful thought! Nothing could possibly go any deeper than the surface. Than this play of appearances. Something that goes deep, it’s just a thought. “Something that goes deep”. When that thought is believed, when it’s seen as anything more than just a thought, it really feels like something goes deep! Thought creates world. Thought is the world. When thought goes, the world goes with it. And when even that thought goes, well.... we can’t even speak of that. It could never be spoken of. It’s…. grace.

[Silence]

And so, this apparent world goes on. There is still light and colour and sound and apparent people having apparent conversations. But underneath, oh, there is this… clarity. This spaciousness. Vast, infinite.

Right now, the story could go… we’re a bunch of people in a room, talking together… but you see, even that story arises in the Vastness.

You see, we cannot “reach” liberation. If you believe you are a person in this room, who can reach liberation, that’s exactly the thought that’s clouding the liberation that is always here, always, forever, perfectly.

And yet, nothing could possibly cloud liberation. That thought – well, it too is a perfect expression. And this is where nonduality gets really… exciting, really encompassing, vast as the universe. Everything, literally everything, is Oneness. And even the confusion, even the “not getting it yet”, even that is Oneness. The absolute collapse of all duality, of better and worse, and right and wrong, of enlightened and unenlightened. The collapse of it all. And yet, those polar opposites still dance and play, and yes it really is a play, that’s what it feels like. A play, with no purpose or meaning outside of… the play. Nothing outside of itself. Everything perfectly itself, timelessly, forever. And yet no separate things at all. Perfection. Perfection in the last place we’d ever look – right, exactly where we are. Exactly so.

Yes, even the confusion, even the suffering is perfect in itself, because even the most intense suffering is just a thought. “I’m suffering” is a thought. It can be a powerful thought, and yes it’s a thought that can go “deep” as you said, but it’s just a thought. And with that thought comes identity as “the one who suffers”.

So you’re saying that we hang on to suffering to keep our identity?

Exactly, but it’s not something we do. There’s no choice in it. Would we really choose to suffer, if we had the choice?

With “suffering” arises the identity as “sufferer”. They arise together and die together. To let go of suffering is to let go of the one who suffers. So letting go of suffering is terrifying to the mind. The mind projects a void into the absence of the sufferer, the mind is terrified to go into that void, into the Unknown. It’s a little like death, to the mind! What would be left if I lost my identity as the one who suffers?

Well, the answer is freedom! There is only freedom. In the absence of all identity, pure, unadulterated freedom. Freedom to be anything. Freedom to not be anything. No difference. This is why the Buddha spoke of suffering as the great illusion. When I think I am suffering, that is exactly what I experience. And I try desperately to end my suffering. I think this will take time. And in this efforting to end suffering, I create a future.

And what the mind could never see is this: it’s the search for the end of suffering that is maintaining the suffering. And, see if you can see this, it’s the search for the end of suffering that is actually creating suffering in the first place.

So, in looking for peace I’m keeping the suffering going?

And that’s something the mind could never accept. You see, the mind wants to suffer, because in suffering it keeps itself going, makes itself stronger and stronger, keeps itself alive. And the open space, the vastness, the transparency that is your true nature, well, in that there is no need for suffering, no place for it. And yet, out of love, even suffering is allowed. The open space does not deny anything. Suffering is allowed. You can suffer if you want to, and nobody will stop you! [Laughter]

And this is not to deny suffering, this is not a cold hearted denial of anything, not at all. That would be to miss the point of this entirely. No, it’s just to say this: suffering only happens for a person. And that’s fine, that’s wonderful, let’s not deny that. And let’s try to help people if they are suffering, let’s not just say “there’s no individual suffering… so I don’t need to help anyone!”. But that’s really missing the point: what I’m saying is that for a person, yes, there is suffering, but in the absence of the person, in the space that you are, in the presence, the unconditional love that embraces everything, where is the suffering? Where is the one who suffers? Where is anything at all? Nowhere. It’s all seen to be a dream, an illusion, a trick of thought. And yet the play of apparent suffering goes on, until it doesn’t. And when it doesn’t, it’s seen that the suffering was never there in the first place. Only the story of suffering, the story of a person.

I was just thinking, the suffering isn’t there in deep, dreamless sleep. Ramana Maharshi said something about .. that which is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not real. So really this is what you’re saying?

Yes. Ultimately it’s not real. It’s the dream of waking life! The dream of a person, the dream of suffering and seeking and playing this whole game we call life. And when it’s not seen as a dream, it seems so terribly solid, so terribly concrete, so real and so serious. And when all that falls away, it’s seen to be a play, a fleeting, fragile, beautifully impermanent show.  A movie, if you will. And it’s not a movie that you are sitting back and watching. It’s a movie that you’re totally at one with. And it’s simply because you are no longer there, that you are fully there.

Say that again?

Oh, it’s the wonderful paradox of this, don’t try to understand it! [Laughter] When you are not there, you are fully there, because there is nothing to separate you from it. There is only the “it”, which is to say, there is Nothing at all. Nothing is happening here. There is only total stillness.

But things appear to move, don’t they?

Yes, and the key word there is “appear”. It’s all a wonderful appearance. A play of appearances. For nobody. Arising out of the barest emptiness, and yet appearing as total fullness, as full as full can be. Nothing to separate anymore. The end of war.

And so, we’re nearly done here I think, but really you see, in the absence of what you call “you”, there is a fullness that “you” could never imagine. And because it’s all so utterly illusory and impermanent, it all takes on a solidity and a “rightness” that the isolated individual self could never hope to see.

I see now that I’ve made this into some sort of “state” for myself, and I’ve been driving myself mad trying to get it. But here… now I see that it’s always here, I guess I’ve been driving myself mad in vain. And there’s a kind of sadness, but a strange sense of joy too…

Yes, the sadness… ah, my friend, you were innocent, throughout that whole struggle. The sadness is the loss of that struggle, the innocence of it all, and the joy, well, that is the openness being allowed to breathe again. The openness that you are, that you always were, throughout it all. It’s all unfolding perfectly. The sadness and the joy, and the struggle, all equal in this. All perfectly appropriate, all accepted, all allowed.

[Silence]

Of course, you are right. This is not a “state” that some people have attained. It’s not something that “Jeff” or anyone else has found. This is just a description of the utterly obvious, so obvious that a newborn baby could see it: there is no separate self. Life has no centre, and never did. This character “Jeff” was never real.

And yet, “Jeff” is apparently giving a talk today. What a wonderful paradox this all is, to a mind. And I could say this… that I just sit back and watch Jeff as he talks here. But even to say that, it sounds like there is an entity that sees Jeff! No, that’s the illusion, and it’s inevitable that language will just fuel that illusion. There is no “Jeff” who sees “Jeff”. Here’s what it’s like: Jeff is seen. And Jeff does what he does. And this open space, this transparency is always unaffected, but loves it all, loves it totally, loves it without reservation because the openness is not separate from any of it. And Jeff dances his little dance, sings his little song, and lives his dream life, and one day he will lie down and die and say goodbye to this dream world, and there’s no problem with it, none at all, not even the possibility of that.

Only Presence, only Oneness, only Love. And all is allowed, and all is myself, and really there is nothing called “myself” at all. This will never be understood by the mind. But somewhere beyond the mind, ah,….that’s where the miracle happens. And this is where we meet today, this is where we always meet. And it all unfolds perfectly. No problems, apart from thinking, and really thinking could never be a problem, because thoughts are just thoughts, they are harmless. And the spiritual search, the search of a lifetime, that’s all just a thought too. Harmless, all harmless, all benevolent. Thankyou all."